Post Game Quotes
October 13, 2007 | Football
Oct. 13, 2007
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Boston College Head Coach Jeff Jagodzinski
COACH JAGODZINSKI: That was a big win for us today. Our kids were excited about playing this football game, and I think they responded. Charlie's guys, they fought us all the way. With that I'll take some questions.
Q. (No microphone.)
COACH JAGODZINSKI: One of the things I thought is Matt never gets rattled when thing go wrong for him. It's one of the things that happen. The linebacker made a good play and he undercut our crossing route. But I don't think Matt got rattled at all. In fact, I know he didn't. That's the way he is. He's a hell of a quarterback.
Q. What was your impression of the two Notre Dame quarterbacks?
COACH JAGODZINSKI: I know this, if we were playing with a true freshman quarterback it would be tough sledding. I know how that is. It's tough. The game is a lot faster than what he saw last year, but he's going to be a really good football player. The second guy that came in there, Sharpley, did a nice job of throwing the ball around, especially on the sideline.
Q. After the interception how important was it for you to get the field position?
COACH JAGODZINSKI: You know, that was really big. That penalty was really big there. Did we end up on the other side of the 50 yard line? I mean, that was big. That was real big for us.
Q. Speaking of penalties, how stressed are you with yours today?
COACH JAGODZINSKI: I'll tell you, the nature of the stress was No. 77. He's the one that had them all. That was big. That will get addressed. A lot of them were motion penalties, too. The crowd noise and everything, and then it got out there he got anxious and jumped a few times.
The long one down the sideline was a screen pass going back to the guys down the field. That was a screen, so not much we could have done about that.
Q. What did you see out of Notre Dame's freshman linebacker, Neal? Did he give you some trouble there?
COACH JAGODZINSKI: They have some really good young football players, and they're going to get better with time. The more reps they get the better they're going to get. They played hard. They didn't play like a young football team at all.
Q. Did you ever look at it that way? Did you address it with the team? How do you feel the team responded to that?
COACH JAGODZINSKI: No, I never did. In fact, we don't worry about people's records, but we know this: We're going to practice and play against our own standard, regardless of who we're playing and where we're playing. No, the trap game, that never came our kids were so excited about playing out here and playing a football game, great rivalry with Boston College.
Q. (No microphone.)
COACH JAGODZINSKI: For the third week in a row he's been very, very productive for us. He just continues to do things that we are asking of him. He's a really well rounded back. He can catch the ball out of the backfield, the screens. He caught a route there on the touchdown for a slant route, thought we could get matched up with a linebacker, and we did. We got exactly what we were looking for, ended up getting inside on him and actually got the ball to him.
Q. Just an appreciation for you status, just your sense of what you guys have done to this point?
COACH JAGODZINSKI: You know, here's what I've done. I've broken the season down into quarters, and we just started the second half of our season, the third quarter. I think if you stay focused that way and don't look ahead or don't look to the next game rather than just the game we're playing, so this is our first game of our third quarter. I told our guys we can't get to where we want to go unless we've taken care of business. I have an appreciation for it, yeah.
Boston College Player Quotes
Senior RE Nick Larkin
On playing Notre Dame...
"Anytime you come to play Notre Dame, it's exciting. Anytime you beat Notre Dame, it's exciting. We knew coming in here [that] their record does not reflect on their football team. They have great players, and they have great coaches as well. So we were ready. We knew coming in that this would not be a cake walk. We were not going to come in and walk all over this team. This is a well-coached team, and this is a team that has a lot of talent. Like I said earlier, their record does not really reflect how good they were. The biggest thing we said coming into this game was, 'Something's going to happen, and when that happens we have to be ready for it, and we have to keep playing.'"
On BC's penalties...
"There's a lot of excitement in this game. There were a lot of penalties on both sides of the ball from both teams."
Sophomore LB Mark Herzlich
On penalties and the win...
"The offense came out and they played great. We had some penalties on both sides of the ball, which we really need to clean up. I had a late hit on the quarterback, and we had another one. I think you can get carried off with the intensity of the game, where we have to sit back a little bit and play smarter. Overall, we played well. And we did what we needed to do to get the win. Now we have to look forward to next Thursday night."
Senior CB DeJuan Tribble
On Parris's reception...
"I saw the play happen, and that guy made a heck of a catch on that play. He actually came to the ball; a lot of receivers just let the ball come to them. He did a great job of coming to the ball and meeting it halfway."
On his penalty...
"I thought it was a clean hit. I used my helmet. I'll have to look at it on film tomorrow and see what it looks like. There was nothing I could do about what they called on the field. I have to live with it."
Senior QB Matt Ryan
The Drive after ND made it 20-14 ...
"It was huge to come back and score especially after you throw an interception and it goes for six. You want to come back out and keep fighting and we went down and did that. The guys stepped up and Kevin Challenger on that touchdown pass had phenomenal timing on his route and then made a guy miss and just did a great job."
ND Defensive ...
"We had seen them blitz UCLA the week before and we expected that. I thought we did a decent job of getting the ball out of the pocket. The interception I threw for their touchdown, they put some good pressure on me and I made a poor decision and probably should have thrown the ball away. They did a nice job with the pressure all day but I thought our guys did a good job as well."
Upcoming Bye Week ...
"It is good to get some people rest and we have a tough stretch ahead of us. We'll take the rest and get guys a little more healthy. It's a great win today but we have to get back at it and get ready for Virginia Tech."
Senior TB Andre Callender
Overall Comments ...
"It feels good to be a big part of the offense. You have to have different dimensions to your game. You can't just be a runner, you have to be a receiver too and I'm trying to bring all those things together to help us win."
Being 7-0 and Ranked No. 4 ...
"We are just staying focused and taking it one day at a time and trying not get ahead of ourselves. We can't look at the numbers and look where we are ranked and things like that. We have to keep our heads down and keep grinding it out in practice."
On the TD ...
"We read the Notre Dame defense the way it was supposed to be read and I was one of the guys they left open and I was able to catch the ball and score."
The Notre Dame Rivalry ...
"We knew they were going to give us their best shot so you just have to go out there and match their intensity and impose your will on them and we were able to do that."
Notre Dame Quotes
COACH Charlie Weis
Q. Can you talk about the play of the two quarterbacks for you today?
COACH WEIS: Well, I think that we were a little bit hot and cold. We made a few plays out there, made a few in the first half, a couple big ones. The bottom line is we have no touchdowns, no points. I thought Jimmy was banged up pretty good, didn't have great zip. I told him I'd give him the first drive of the second half to see what he had, and he came up and threw that early pick, and I just felt at that time a fresh Evan was the way to go. He gave us a spark and came out and made some plays, especially in that first drive, and he made some nice throws in the second half, but the bottom line is I think we're hot and cold.
Q. And following up on that, do you have to kind of weigh this and make a decision?
COACH WEIS: Yeah, I'll have to wait and see how it goes. When we can't do I'm never big on blaming a quarterback for the lack of production of the offense, but obviously he's part of it, but I'll have to go wait until I take a look at this stuff.
Q. A couple of injuries, Aldridge and --
COACH WEIS: I don't know what James is, but he came out and tried to go back in and was in for a play or so, and he just couldn't go anymore. I haven't had a chance to get in there yet.
Q. What's Mo's condition?
COACH WEIS: Mo has been hobbled since the second quarter of last week, and he went out and just practiced a little bit this week, and we figured we'd go out there and he would try to go, and I told him that I would not do anything to endanger him to make it any worse than where it is right there. And there came a point where he got out there early, we were going to play him at nickel defense and not playing him at regular, and after a little while it was pretty obvious that he just didn't have enough juice to go. So we pulled the plug on that.
Q. You said that Clausen is more accurate in practice, and certainly Sharpley, his numbers don't show great accuracy today. But does he sometimes perform better in a game situation than he does in a practice situation?
COACH WEIS: That's a pretty fair statement because one of the reasons why you judge the whole big picture is accuracy on every day, and I think that Evan in the game is usually pretty accurate, and I think if he's going to end up wanting to he wants to be the guy, which I know he does, if he wants to move past Jimmy, which I know he does, it's got to be an everyday thing, it can't just be a game day thing.
Q. And coaches being coaches, you can't ignore what you see on a daily basis?
COACH WEIS: No, no, the game counts, trust me, but so does every day in practice, especially when they're very close competitively.
Q. Last week you won obviously, but are you as encouraged after this loss more than any of the previous ones?
COACH WEIS: Well, the thing that really got me the most yeah, there are some I mean, we just lost to a good football team. You've got to take things into proper perspective. Boston College is a good football team, they're well coached, they're sound fundamentally, they've got a top line quarterback, they've got a tough defense and they play pretty stout on special teams. That's very matter of fact.
That being said, I'd say the two most disappointing things for me were us turning the ball over quickly in the third quarter and giving them the ball on the 10 yard line for a quick score. Then after we bounce back and score one by the way, Kentucky just won, just figured I'd let you know that. I don't know what happened, but I see them all jumping around like crazy.
Getting back to the tangent that I just went off on, where was I?
Okay, turned the ball over right off the bat and giving them the quick score and then not having the maturity as a football team, not having the discipline as a football team after Brian's interception to just put all the gas back in your tank and all the momentum had just gone your way, you're going 20 14. And I'll blame me for that because the bottom line is I'm responsible for the discipline of our football team, and if we can't be disciplined enough and we're not mature enough, sure, we could sit there and say about these guys going out there and being fired up, but the bottom line is it's my team and we got that penalty and now we kick off and they get the ball in plus territory, and that's their other score. That's their two scores for the second half, and that's sad.
Q. Brian Smith, the first freshman to return an interception for a touchdown in 31 years. Do you see him getting better and better every week?
COACH WEIS: Brian Smith is going to be a very, very good football player. There's no doubt that he's on the rise and that arrow is pointing straight up for him.
Q. Is there some advantage of a quarterback a shot of energy for is there something to be said about a quarterback coming in when the chips are down a little bit, that shot of energy? Did you sense that when Evan comes in in that spot down 20-0?
COACH WEIS: When you come in and you make a couple plays right off the bat and you have a five , six , seven play drive, whatever it was, and go down there and score, I think that now there was gas in the tank of not just the offense but the defense, too, because when the defense keeps on fighting their butts off and you're not getting any points for them, then what happens is the defense starts trying to do more than doing their job. They try to make plays that they're really not supposed to be making.
You know, I never can fault the defense when we turn the ball over on the plus 10 yard line for giving up points. You'd like to hold them to three, but you can't fault them for giving up points. But I think that Evan's quick drive put gas in the tank of the whole team, and I think that that put it into a very competitive game the rest of the way.
Q. You commented about the penalty after Brian Smith's touchdown. Equally as deflating would you say the penalty that brought the touchdown off the board with Robby's touchdown, just in general, some deflating penalties?
COACH WEIS: Yeah, but the thing is as much as I would have liked them not to have made that call, I didn't see whether or not we held him or not. I'd like to sit there and say I was standing to see whether he was holding or not, but to be honest with you when you make a gutsy call like that on 4th and 1 and everyone thinks you're calling for a 1st down and you're calling a play action pass to try to throw a touchdown pass because you're trying to do something to get your team in a position to win the game, I was just counting I was watching Robby Parris to tell you the truth because on that play that's who we were throwing the ball to, so when we faked the action, as soon as I saw the ball snapped and saw what was happening, my eyes went to see whether or not they were going to take the cheese on the fake or not with the safety, which they did, so he's standing there wide open.
So I went from feeling pretty good about myself and about the call and feeling pretty good about our chances to, you know, seeing the flag. And without seeing the call, hey, I can watch the officials all I want but that still puts us 27 21 and we still end up losing. I would have liked to see what would happen, but I didn't see the call enough to sit there and say anything about it.
Q. Speaking about players on the rise and then speaking about Robby Parris, he had quite an afternoon. Can you talk about how he's been playing for you?
COACH WEIS: Yeah, he's a smooth receiver that runs good routes, not a burner, but he runs good routes and he has good hands, and you can see that he'll be playing here for the next few years and just keeps on getting better and better. But he's a big target with good hand and runs good routes. He's the type of player that will always find a role on this team.
Q. It looked like he was pretty close to making a few amazing grabs. Does he do that a lot during the week?
COACH WEIS: You don't get medals for trying, though. Either you make them or you don't make them. He makes them every day. There isn't a day that goes by that he doesn't make a very good play because he's smooth and he has really good hands. And like I said before, not to be redundant, but he's also a big target so he's easy to find.
Q. Was the decision to take Jimmy out based on injury? Was it based on ineffectiveness?
COACH WEIS: It was probably a combination of the two. The question is is the ineffectiveness caused by being banged up. Part of the ineffectiveness, you could see he just wasn't I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying I didn't see a fresh at that point I felt going with a fresh Evan was just the way to go.
Q. Jansen's bad snap to Jeff, the knee comes down, they get the ball, they score, they go up 13 0. How big was that, just fundamentals?
COACH WEIS: Yeah, that was a huge play because a lot of times people want to blame the punter, but the ball is down and he's going to pick it up. What are you going to do, just bend over and make sure you don't touch your knee on the ground? I think it's almost a natural instinct what Jeff did. He's going down to get the ball.
That's uncharacteristic of J.J. because I'd say he's easily bull's eyed when it comes to snapping. I felt that that was the correct call. I thought his knee was on the ground. Just from the naked eye, that's what I thought. I didn't want to do much about that one. I had some other ones I was whining about, but that wasn't one of them.
Q. When Jimmy was sliding and he was hit, was that the point where you saw him get hurt? It seemed like you were pretty incensed that there wasn't a call there.
COACH WEIS: I thought it was a shot at the head. And any time there's a shot at the head, I believe the quarterback at any level should be protected. Even if they're out of the pocket and they're running, the kid is already down, and I thought it was a shot at the head. Not a malicious shot at the head; I don't think the kid with a Boston College was trying to hurt him, I just thought it was a shot at the head, and I thought that it should have been called a personal foul. But that's maybe it was a shoulder to shoulder, I don't know, but just from where I was, that's what it looked like.
Q. And Jimmy's injury, was that a reaggravation from a few weeks ago?
COACH WEIS: No, I didn't say anything about Jimmy's injury. I said he just didn't look full speed, so I made a switch. I mean, these guys are all sore. It's the seventh game of the season. There's a lot of guys that are hurt at this stage of the year. Mo Crum tried to go, David Grimes didn't go. That's part of football; people get hurt.
Q. Between the penalties you talked about and the snap, with the exception of a couple of big plays, do you feel like this is a game that was really there for you?
COACH WEIS: I think that we had a chance in this game. We had a chance in this game. But you know what, the bottom line is they won 27 14, and if I sit there and say, God, if we just would have been better on that snap or if we would have hit this one pass or we didn't get a penalty, but the thing is we did. All those things count, all those plays count the same. So rather than sitting here and making excuses, which is never my deal, I think that I have to figure out a way of getting it done better, not celebrate, not throw the interception, get a better snap in that situation, tie those things together because we are not the type of team at this point that's just going to go up and down the field against somebody, so we have to play a more error free game.
Q. How much more can you stress to these guys that you have to play 60 minutes and not 30?
COACH WEIS: I think I do that. I think I try to stress that. I think if we were to go in, just like you talked about the play with J.J., if you go in at halftime 6 0 it's a different game. If you don't celebrate it's a different game. The thing is the plays all count the same, and that's just the way it is.
Q. After the excessive celebration penalty, do you think about kicking the ball out of bounds or giving it to them on the 35?
COACH WEIS: Well, that's why we mortar kicked it. We sky kicked it thinking we were going to kick it to their up back, which is who we kicked it to, and then we'd be able to get the ball on about the 40 yard line. I said, look, just sky kick it over to the up back, go and tackle him, we'll get him on the minus 40. But now the kid catches the ball, makes a couple guys miss, gets an extra, whatever, 15, 20 yards, whatever he got. If he catches the ball we're now on the minus 40, you would have considered it a successful play.
Q. I realize 459 is probably not what you're looking to give up defensively, but do you feel like that side of the ball is starting to get better?
COACH WEIS: Yeah, a lot of that 459 the first half, too, especially the one long run where they bust up the sideline, I don't know, was it 50 yards? I don't know, it was a big chunk right there. But remember now, with that team, that team, as long as they keep that quarterback healthy, that team is going to be competitive against anyone they play, as long as that quarterback has got an opportunity.
Going back to our defense, I think that there's definitely some bright spots. You never can be jumping up and down about giving up 450 yards of offense, okay, but I think there was definitely some bright spots, and the one thing different than any game we played this year is right until the five minute mark in the game, right until after the penalty on the play action pass where we score and it's now 27 21, no one really knew who was going to win the game yet, not until after we come up short and now it's 4th down and they get the ball back. That's probably the first time in the game we say, okay, this game is over.
Q. And Sharpley's completion to Carlson got reviewed and moved back, but just that play, Sharpley's escapability moving around in the pocket, is that a veteran, or is that something that's unique to him, his skill set?
COACH WEIS: He had a couple of those in the game, too. They were bringing a lot more pressure in this game, more than they normally do, but we kind of planned on that coming in, but he did a nice job of getting away from pressure a few times and was able to make a few plays on that.
Q. A similar question, you've talked about sustaining momentum offensively, and I wonder since halftime at Purdue do you feel like defensively that team is playing better and to a different standard?
COACH WEIS: I think they're definitely playing better, but still, over 250 yards of offense in the first half. I think that that's not what we're looking for. We still gave up a big play on the run, and that's not what we're looking for. We still had them pinned down a few times and had them change field position, and that's not what we're looking for, either. That being said, I think that the defense has definitely upped their speed of the game and they're playing tough and they're playing hard, just I think we have to do a better job across the board.
I'm encouraged by plenty of the things I see on defense. I'm encouraged by a whole bunch of them. But obviously we can't make enough plays to win the game.
Q. Just a follow up on an earlier question. This is the seventh game that you've played. In four of the seven games you have not scored a point in the first half. Can you talk about the first half? Is there a different philosophy at the start of the game than there is when you're behind coming out in the second half?
COACH WEIS: I guess not because we went no huddle right from the start of the game, so you're talking about changing the tempo of the game and trying to jump start them and get them going. You come up, get a quick 1st down. I think that the one thing we haven't been able to do is sustain the long drives. Usually when we've scored this year it's been with a big play in there. It's either a long run or a long pass that changes field position and then we go in to score. What we haven't been able to do is tie together a 10 , 12 , 15 play drive for a score because we haven't played consistent enough ball. Like even the first drive we're talking about, there's a big play. The last one where we didn't get the touchdown there's a big play. I mean, there's big plays that change field position that put us in position to score.
Notre Dame Player Quotes
Sophomore OT Sam Young
On both quarterbacks getting playing time...
"They both do a great job in the huddle and they're both very capable players. Whoever ends up starting next week I'm going to be behind them 100% and I'll protect them as much as possible."
On seeing a spark when Sharpley entered the game...
"I think our offense as a whole did get going in the second half. You can go back and look at it as a tale of two halves as far as our offense was concerned. I don't know what to attribute it to, but we need to go back and do a 60 minute game."
On touchdown being called back because of mistakes...
"I'm guilty of it. I think everyone takes a part of the blame. It is frustrating, but you know we need to have less and less of those. We can't make those mistakes. That's what kills us. We just need to get better at it."
On not scoring any first half points and rebounding from that in the second half...
"Coming out after halftime, we definitely had a renewed fire. We came out trying to score points, we just didn't score as many as we needed to."
Senior ILB Joe Brockington
On Brian Smith making a big play ...
"With the coverage he (Brian Smith) was dropping right there in the middle. He dropped and the quarterback tried to throw to the guy crossing the middle and he just made a good play. He picked it off and took it for six."
On the defensive unit progressing since the start of the season...
"I definitely think we've progressed. We're not giving up as many yards on the ground. I think we're playing more as a unit. When someone messes up, the other person is getting their back. I think we're pulling together pretty well."
On the celebration penalty and it's effect...
"It was big because when we kicked off they got the ball in positive territory. Then ended up giving up a touchdown so it was big. It was the same kind of celebration we had at the UCLA game. I wasn't really expecting a flag."
On sticking with such a good team and if it's encouraging...
"Definitely, but at the same time we lost. You really can't get too happy about that."
Senior DE Trevor Laws
On penalties and mistakes...
"Their quarterback played great. He was hard to get to all day, but if we wouldn't have made the mistakes we did we all know what would have happened. You don't like saying all these what ifs, but you never know."
On losses being frustrating but getting over the hump...
"I do think that we're making progress. Even though we lost today I thought that we played pretty good football. It's good to see that we're still trying to go for it as opposed to just totally taking a dive the other way. I think we're playing alright."
On if he thinks he played well today...
"No. Too many big plays, couldn't stop the run when we needed to some times. There were a couple of drives where they'd run the ball one time on us and just couldn't stop those short passes. There's a lot that we could've done that we didn't do. It was definitely not good enough."
Senior DS Tom Zbikowski
On change of quarterbacks and team looking better...
"It's hard for us to see. We're always working on sideline adjustments. They're both good quarterbacks. I have no say in it and I just stick to what happens with the defense. The coaches watch film and make the decisions just like they do with any other position."
On excessive celebration penalty...
"I thought that when you're celebrating with your team that that was fine. Obviously we took it too far and got the penalty."
On overall feel of the game today...
"That's tough. You do see the character of this team week in and week out and that we're going to be playing until the fourth quarter is over. We just need to eliminate mistakes and keep playing hard."
Senior DB Terrail Lambert
On Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan...
"He's a solid player. I think anytime you have a person with superior decision-making skills at the quarterback position, clearly you offer a really good security blanket for the offense and as a play-caller as well, so he really, really impressed me with his play. He's a solid quarterback and he always made the right decision at the right time. He never put his offense in a bad situation. It really makes it difficult for a defense to zero in and focus in, because the guy at the quarterback is the most dangerous person on the field, for the sole reason that he has the ball in his hands most of the time."
Junior NT Pat Kuntz
On the defense and the team moving forward despite the loss...
"We're taking steps forward, but at the same time we're just not getting enough done."
On the Boston College offensive line...
"They are a good offensive line. Their scheme was good; you never saw anybody get blocked by one person. They always had two guys on you. When you get rid of the ball pretty quick, it's tough to get pressure on them."
Sophomore WR Robby Parris
On his smooth routes...
"I think route-running is one of my better things because obviously I'm not going to just run a 4.3 past somebody. So I have to run good routes, and when the ball is in the air, I've got to make a play on it. I have the size, but I have to use it well."
On a frustrating loss...
"It's definitely frustrating because I think that we had a good chance to win this game. I definitely thought we were going to win. We had a couple good days of practice, and I thought it was going to relay to the game. When we were coming back, I thought we were going to win."
Senior TE John Carlson
On Evan Sharpley entering the game...
"We've said all along from day one that we have a lot of faith in all of our quarterbacks. We have a lot of faith in Jimmy. We have a lot of faith in Evan. They've both proven that they have the ability to get the job done."
On opportunities in the second half...
"We had our opportunities, and obviously we didn't take advantage of all of them. We have to give [Boston College] a lot of credit. They're 7-0 for a reason. But we did have opportunities."
On first half struggles...
"Starting fast is one of our goals every game. It's frustrating. It's frustrating to lose. We are in a situation where the only thing we can do is continue to work and try to correct the mistakes."
Q. Take us through the touchdown pass when everybody was cheering. Take us through that.
EVAN SHARPLEY: It's a terrible feeling when you go through a play like that and have success and then there's some laundry on the field. That's how the game goes sometimes.
Q. Any other opportunities here for you for the taking?
EVAN SHARPLEY: I don't know. I mean, like I've been saying, it's not up to me. It's up to other people. Hopefully I keep improving and we keep improving and getting better.
Q. Is it frustrating a little bit, you come in, you do well a couple times throughout the season and yet you haven't got the chance to be a starter?
EVAN SHARPLEY: I think it's more frustrating that we're still losing, and we want to win. That's all anybody wants this year. I think that's the most frustrating part right now.
Q. What was going through your mind on that 4th and 1? Take us through that play.
EVAN SHARPLEY: Yeah, I mean, that's football. It's disappointing when you have success and then it's taken away from you. Those things happen, though.
Q. Can you talk about Robby Parris?
EVAN SHARPLEY: Yeah, Robby is doing a great job getting open, and fortunately enough we got to hook up a few times and move the ball a little bit.
Q. (Inaudible.)
EVAN SHARPLEY: It's difficult. It was a good play and it was a good call. Sometimes those things happen.
Q. When you're coming back and bringing the team back, is that one of the reasons you love being a quarterback?
EVAN SHARPLEY: I think it's one of the reasons everybody plays football. It's a great feeling when those moments occur, and you really have to suck those in. Unfortunately it got taken away. That's tough, and that's life.
Q. (No microphone.)
EVAN SHARPLEY: You know, I'm not going to be the judge of that. I continually say, I'm not the head coach. The coaches are making decisions and they're the ones that are ultimately getting paid, not me.
